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	<title>Comments on: &#8216;We&#8217;ll hire you if get a haircut&#8217; &#8212; religious bias?</title>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://www.hrrecruitingalert.com/well-hire-you-if-get-a-haircut-religious-bias/comment-page-1/#comment-16585</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 13:09:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hrrecruitingalert.com/?p=2315#comment-16585</guid>
		<description>@Michelle 

This thread has morphed into personal opinions, which is the direction I took. Yes your point on the law was never in question, and only that some of us do not believe a) the law is right b) that people, in which this thread discussed, should be crying about discrimination as if winning in court is the only way this person can get income. 

Work harder, educate yourself, and keep your nose clean is how most people do it. I hate the excuses as to why someone can not achieve or can not get a job. We have unfortunately given more credence to this *minority* then we should. This country allows and encourages this behavior and it needs to stop! 

Call it what you may and be as politically correct as you may; it does not change the fact this country was built on the hard work of the people, not the complaining, and self entitled attitudes.  

Thanks to everyone that has weighed in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Michelle </p>
<p>This thread has morphed into personal opinions, which is the direction I took. Yes your point on the law was never in question, and only that some of us do not believe a) the law is right b) that people, in which this thread discussed, should be crying about discrimination as if winning in court is the only way this person can get income. </p>
<p>Work harder, educate yourself, and keep your nose clean is how most people do it. I hate the excuses as to why someone can not achieve or can not get a job. We have unfortunately given more credence to this *minority* then we should. This country allows and encourages this behavior and it needs to stop! </p>
<p>Call it what you may and be as politically correct as you may; it does not change the fact this country was built on the hard work of the people, not the complaining, and self entitled attitudes.  </p>
<p>Thanks to everyone that has weighed in.</p>
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		<title>By: Michelle</title>
		<link>http://www.hrrecruitingalert.com/well-hire-you-if-get-a-haircut-religious-bias/comment-page-1/#comment-16474</link>
		<dc:creator>Michelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 22:53:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hrrecruitingalert.com/?p=2315#comment-16474</guid>
		<description>I assume that the people on this board were experienced HR professionals involved with talent management and were therefore familiar with the employment laws.  But perhaps not.  The protected classes are those that the government has identified and indicated in the Civil Rights legislations:  race, age, religion/creed, sex, ethnicity, color, national origin, familial status, disability, veteran status.  Why is a company which is owned by a minority considered a &quot;black&quot; company, red, yellow, etc.?  There are also plenty of companies which are headed by minorities -- are those companies therefore also designated by the religion or race or sex of the person heading it?  To designate certain companies as  black, red, etc. is segregationist.  Understanding the discriminatory practices (conscious and unconscious) that minority people have endured for a very long time is very important to understanding the reasons there have to be laws to protect employment practices, and why certain actions are discriminatory and against the law.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I assume that the people on this board were experienced HR professionals involved with talent management and were therefore familiar with the employment laws.  But perhaps not.  The protected classes are those that the government has identified and indicated in the Civil Rights legislations:  race, age, religion/creed, sex, ethnicity, color, national origin, familial status, disability, veteran status.  Why is a company which is owned by a minority considered a &#8220;black&#8221; company, red, yellow, etc.?  There are also plenty of companies which are headed by minorities &#8212; are those companies therefore also designated by the religion or race or sex of the person heading it?  To designate certain companies as  black, red, etc. is segregationist.  Understanding the discriminatory practices (conscious and unconscious) that minority people have endured for a very long time is very important to understanding the reasons there have to be laws to protect employment practices, and why certain actions are discriminatory and against the law.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://www.hrrecruitingalert.com/well-hire-you-if-get-a-haircut-religious-bias/comment-page-1/#comment-16472</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 21:41:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hrrecruitingalert.com/?p=2315#comment-16472</guid>
		<description>@melissa you are correct, being Christian does not make me right, nor does it make me wrong. &quot;Go rant somewhere else about how the White Christian male is superior and smarter. &quot; 

Please show me where I said, or implied, any of this?? To be clear, I think all races of people have failed. There are none that are above any other. Therefore I do not see why any need protection over another. That in and of itself is unfair to the other. 

@Michelle, people are in the wrong ONLY when it is against people under protection? And who are those people that are protected? In your argument, should not everyone be protected? Why just some? And NO law will stop people from hiring based upon their biases. EVERYONE brings their bias into an interview. And there is nothing wrong with that, it is human nature. People hire those they feel comfortable with. 

&quot;By the way, I didn’t know there were such things a “black” companies, which therefore presumes there are “white” and “yellow” and “red” companies.&quot;

Really? So you do not know of any companies owned by American Indians? All white companies? All black companies? Companies own by Chinese? Companies owned by Italians? Then you would not know that people, in general, hire people like them? Out in CA, many casinos are owned by American Indians, and I did not see many whites working in them. I worked down town for many years where most businesses where owned by blacks, and good luck being white and getting a job in any of them.

Now you use the word &#039;intentional&#039; in which i VERY much agree that when someone makes a conscience decision not to hire someone just because they are black, white, or whatever, then that is wrong. But I still think it should not be protected under law. But unfortunately we have laws that uneven the playing field.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@melissa you are correct, being Christian does not make me right, nor does it make me wrong. &#8220;Go rant somewhere else about how the White Christian male is superior and smarter. &#8221; </p>
<p>Please show me where I said, or implied, any of this?? To be clear, I think all races of people have failed. There are none that are above any other. Therefore I do not see why any need protection over another. That in and of itself is unfair to the other. </p>
<p>@Michelle, people are in the wrong ONLY when it is against people under protection? And who are those people that are protected? In your argument, should not everyone be protected? Why just some? And NO law will stop people from hiring based upon their biases. EVERYONE brings their bias into an interview. And there is nothing wrong with that, it is human nature. People hire those they feel comfortable with. </p>
<p>&#8220;By the way, I didn’t know there were such things a “black” companies, which therefore presumes there are “white” and “yellow” and “red” companies.&#8221;</p>
<p>Really? So you do not know of any companies owned by American Indians? All white companies? All black companies? Companies own by Chinese? Companies owned by Italians? Then you would not know that people, in general, hire people like them? Out in CA, many casinos are owned by American Indians, and I did not see many whites working in them. I worked down town for many years where most businesses where owned by blacks, and good luck being white and getting a job in any of them.</p>
<p>Now you use the word &#8216;intentional&#8217; in which i VERY much agree that when someone makes a conscience decision not to hire someone just because they are black, white, or whatever, then that is wrong. But I still think it should not be protected under law. But unfortunately we have laws that uneven the playing field.</p>
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		<title>By: Michelle</title>
		<link>http://www.hrrecruitingalert.com/well-hire-you-if-get-a-haircut-religious-bias/comment-page-1/#comment-16468</link>
		<dc:creator>Michelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 21:09:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hrrecruitingalert.com/?p=2315#comment-16468</guid>
		<description>Richard - I can very easily make the correlation between denying a group of people their rights vis a vis voting rights, to any other discrminatory practices.  There is no large or small difference when it comes to deliberate, intentional discrimination that doesn&#039;t allow people to exercise their rights.  Again, companies can hire whomever they want, but if it results in intentional disparate impact of employment, pay, etc. of a person or a group of people that are of a protected class and therefore &quot;aren&#039;t like them&quot;, then the company will have to prepare to deal with the consequences.  It&#039;s a very simple choice.  By the way, I didn&#039;t know there were such things a &quot;black&quot; companies, which therefore presumes there are &quot;white&quot; and &quot;yellow&quot; and &quot;red&quot; companies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard &#8211; I can very easily make the correlation between denying a group of people their rights vis a vis voting rights, to any other discrminatory practices.  There is no large or small difference when it comes to deliberate, intentional discrimination that doesn&#8217;t allow people to exercise their rights.  Again, companies can hire whomever they want, but if it results in intentional disparate impact of employment, pay, etc. of a person or a group of people that are of a protected class and therefore &#8220;aren&#8217;t like them&#8221;, then the company will have to prepare to deal with the consequences.  It&#8217;s a very simple choice.  By the way, I didn&#8217;t know there were such things a &#8220;black&#8221; companies, which therefore presumes there are &#8220;white&#8221; and &#8220;yellow&#8221; and &#8220;red&#8221; companies.</p>
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		<title>By: Mary D.</title>
		<link>http://www.hrrecruitingalert.com/well-hire-you-if-get-a-haircut-religious-bias/comment-page-1/#comment-16467</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 20:40:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hrrecruitingalert.com/?p=2315#comment-16467</guid>
		<description>Wow...this topic is so hot that I wont&#039; touch it.  But, I wanted to see what else is said about the matter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow&#8230;this topic is so hot that I wont&#8217; touch it.  But, I wanted to see what else is said about the matter.</p>
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		<title>By: Alvin Carthage</title>
		<link>http://www.hrrecruitingalert.com/well-hire-you-if-get-a-haircut-religious-bias/comment-page-1/#comment-16435</link>
		<dc:creator>Alvin Carthage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 17:24:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hrrecruitingalert.com/?p=2315#comment-16435</guid>
		<description>Why is everyone presuming the Rastafarian plaintiff is black? There are non-black Rastas out there too. How does long hair impede performing security duty? I understand policy is policy but, to be honest, I think EVERYONE knows that once you set qualifications aside getting hired is all about human factors (judgements) made by individuals responsible for hiring and as such, getting hired by them is mostly a matter of how much they like your personality, appearance and impression that you present to them.

I agree 100% that we are far too sue-happy in this country. On the other hand, the company in question should have maybe HIRED better lawyers! LOL</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why is everyone presuming the Rastafarian plaintiff is black? There are non-black Rastas out there too. How does long hair impede performing security duty? I understand policy is policy but, to be honest, I think EVERYONE knows that once you set qualifications aside getting hired is all about human factors (judgements) made by individuals responsible for hiring and as such, getting hired by them is mostly a matter of how much they like your personality, appearance and impression that you present to them.</p>
<p>I agree 100% that we are far too sue-happy in this country. On the other hand, the company in question should have maybe HIRED better lawyers! LOL</p>
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		<title>By: melissa</title>
		<link>http://www.hrrecruitingalert.com/well-hire-you-if-get-a-haircut-religious-bias/comment-page-1/#comment-16424</link>
		<dc:creator>melissa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 16:00:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hrrecruitingalert.com/?p=2315#comment-16424</guid>
		<description>I was a manager for Ruby Tuesday here on the east coast in my early twenties.  I am white and I had very long dreads. I worked my way up from a server to the general manager in less than a year.  Another shift leader in my same store was black and had dreads almost the same length as mine.  Our job duties were the same and we had been there the same length of time.  I was asked to cut mine out once entering the manager in training program.  She was not.  You are all right, we all discriminate.  We all have biases.  Most of us have been the target of some discrimination or judgement FROM ALL WALKS OF LIFE.  I cut my hair and gained the experience I needed because in the end.....it&#039;s just hair.

I just read through everyones&#039; entries.  Richard, we all know you are Christian.  Shout it from the rooftops.  It doesn&#039;t make you right.  Your last entry is absolutely absurd.  Go rant somewhere else about how the White Christian male is superior and smarter.  

In regards to the article, I am wondering how the other aspects of being a rastafari will play into this.  There are several sects in the rastafarian lifestyle.  Most do not cut or shave their beards as well as their hair. More importantly, many/most take part in the spiritual ritual of smoking cannibus.  If the court protects his hair choice based on religion, will they protect his right to smoke marijuana? If a rastafarian is told they must pass a drug test in order to comply with safety regulations, can they sue?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was a manager for Ruby Tuesday here on the east coast in my early twenties.  I am white and I had very long dreads. I worked my way up from a server to the general manager in less than a year.  Another shift leader in my same store was black and had dreads almost the same length as mine.  Our job duties were the same and we had been there the same length of time.  I was asked to cut mine out once entering the manager in training program.  She was not.  You are all right, we all discriminate.  We all have biases.  Most of us have been the target of some discrimination or judgement FROM ALL WALKS OF LIFE.  I cut my hair and gained the experience I needed because in the end&#8230;..it&#8217;s just hair.</p>
<p>I just read through everyones&#8217; entries.  Richard, we all know you are Christian.  Shout it from the rooftops.  It doesn&#8217;t make you right.  Your last entry is absolutely absurd.  Go rant somewhere else about how the White Christian male is superior and smarter.  </p>
<p>In regards to the article, I am wondering how the other aspects of being a rastafari will play into this.  There are several sects in the rastafarian lifestyle.  Most do not cut or shave their beards as well as their hair. More importantly, many/most take part in the spiritual ritual of smoking cannibus.  If the court protects his hair choice based on religion, will they protect his right to smoke marijuana? If a rastafarian is told they must pass a drug test in order to comply with safety regulations, can they sue?</p>
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		<title>By: Donna M. Dunning</title>
		<link>http://www.hrrecruitingalert.com/well-hire-you-if-get-a-haircut-religious-bias/comment-page-1/#comment-16345</link>
		<dc:creator>Donna M. Dunning</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 14:05:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hrrecruitingalert.com/?p=2315#comment-16345</guid>
		<description>taking a que from Richard.  Years ago my eldest son worked at a local resort as activities director.  All winter he wore dreadlocks.  Then came spring and the general manager saw his hair.  he told my son &quot;cut them off or leave&quot;.  My son, who is one of the most tolerant people I have ever met, got back in the car, left. 

BUT had he not been white, we strongly believe it would never have been an issue.  Even though he had an excellent attendance record and had many compliments from guests at the resort, it didn&#039;t matter.  

He didn&#039;t think of suing.  He just went and got another job.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>taking a que from Richard.  Years ago my eldest son worked at a local resort as activities director.  All winter he wore dreadlocks.  Then came spring and the general manager saw his hair.  he told my son &#8220;cut them off or leave&#8221;.  My son, who is one of the most tolerant people I have ever met, got back in the car, left. </p>
<p>BUT had he not been white, we strongly believe it would never have been an issue.  Even though he had an excellent attendance record and had many compliments from guests at the resort, it didn&#8217;t matter.  </p>
<p>He didn&#8217;t think of suing.  He just went and got another job.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://www.hrrecruitingalert.com/well-hire-you-if-get-a-haircut-religious-bias/comment-page-1/#comment-16304</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 15:26:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hrrecruitingalert.com/?p=2315#comment-16304</guid>
		<description>@Myra: it is probably not wise to associate policy with a State that has the highest debt, and in the top 5 probably in corruption. It gives you not the proof of a working concept. BTW, I just go back from San Diego, what&#039;s with the 90 degree temps???? :) My brother exclaims the 75 degree all year. I think he is just rubbing it in as I am on the East cost. 

@Michelle: There is a huge difference between justifying someone&#039;s voting rights if they are a citizen and mandating someone hire someone else because they are different. I believe all (legal) citizens have the right to vote, but I DO NOT believe companies should fear not hiring someone. If a company owned by blacks do not want to hire me because i am white, then so be it. Why is that wrong? 

It is odd that you never find a white man complaining he can&#039;t get into a black company or any such cases with ohter races. Nor do you find Christians in court because they can&#039;t get into non-Christian work places. So either ONLY white Christians are racist or we are the only ones that don&#039;t cry about what is human nature??? 

Think about it! It is only social engineering going on. Men do not try to get into woman&#039;s clubs, straights do not try to get into gay companies or orgs (like gays try to get into the Boy Scouts) You only hear those that have been told they are a &#039;minority&#039; and that they have rights exceeding those of others. 

Example. I work for many years in a down town store. As THEY put it, i was the only &#039;salt in the pepper shaker&#039;. Most affectionately referred to me as their &#039;white brother&#039; or &#039;the crazy white boy&#039;. I would walk into the local deli to get dinner and was made to feel uncomfortable at times. I was threatened on many occasions, and even told i was going to be shot. (hence the crazy white boy for staying). 

Now did i run and cry racism? No. Would anyone listen to me anyway? NO!! Conversely if I were black in a white neighborhood, it would be all over the news. Crys of outrage would be heard. 

See how the civil rights movement has been perverted? I have no preconceived thoughts on anyone, but judge everyone according to their actions, and they me. But to tell me i have to hire someone even if I do not believe they will fit into my company or group is NOT what this country was founded on. 

Like every great leader of this country, black or white, has told us. We need to educate and work hard. That is how we get ahead. And many black have after slavery ended. Well, at least ended in this country, it is still widely used in Africa and other countries. But we do not seem to care about them do we? So I say we do not care about slavery, but rather the social justice we can leverage from a crisis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Myra: it is probably not wise to associate policy with a State that has the highest debt, and in the top 5 probably in corruption. It gives you not the proof of a working concept. BTW, I just go back from San Diego, what&#8217;s with the 90 degree temps???? <img src='http://www.hrrecruitingalert.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  My brother exclaims the 75 degree all year. I think he is just rubbing it in as I am on the East cost. </p>
<p>@Michelle: There is a huge difference between justifying someone&#8217;s voting rights if they are a citizen and mandating someone hire someone else because they are different. I believe all (legal) citizens have the right to vote, but I DO NOT believe companies should fear not hiring someone. If a company owned by blacks do not want to hire me because i am white, then so be it. Why is that wrong? </p>
<p>It is odd that you never find a white man complaining he can&#8217;t get into a black company or any such cases with ohter races. Nor do you find Christians in court because they can&#8217;t get into non-Christian work places. So either ONLY white Christians are racist or we are the only ones that don&#8217;t cry about what is human nature??? </p>
<p>Think about it! It is only social engineering going on. Men do not try to get into woman&#8217;s clubs, straights do not try to get into gay companies or orgs (like gays try to get into the Boy Scouts) You only hear those that have been told they are a &#8216;minority&#8217; and that they have rights exceeding those of others. </p>
<p>Example. I work for many years in a down town store. As THEY put it, i was the only &#8216;salt in the pepper shaker&#8217;. Most affectionately referred to me as their &#8216;white brother&#8217; or &#8216;the crazy white boy&#8217;. I would walk into the local deli to get dinner and was made to feel uncomfortable at times. I was threatened on many occasions, and even told i was going to be shot. (hence the crazy white boy for staying). </p>
<p>Now did i run and cry racism? No. Would anyone listen to me anyway? NO!! Conversely if I were black in a white neighborhood, it would be all over the news. Crys of outrage would be heard. </p>
<p>See how the civil rights movement has been perverted? I have no preconceived thoughts on anyone, but judge everyone according to their actions, and they me. But to tell me i have to hire someone even if I do not believe they will fit into my company or group is NOT what this country was founded on. </p>
<p>Like every great leader of this country, black or white, has told us. We need to educate and work hard. That is how we get ahead. And many black have after slavery ended. Well, at least ended in this country, it is still widely used in Africa and other countries. But we do not seem to care about them do we? So I say we do not care about slavery, but rather the social justice we can leverage from a crisis.</p>
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		<title>By: Michelle</title>
		<link>http://www.hrrecruitingalert.com/well-hire-you-if-get-a-haircut-religious-bias/comment-page-1/#comment-16275</link>
		<dc:creator>Michelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 22:04:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hrrecruitingalert.com/?p=2315#comment-16275</guid>
		<description>I think someday sexual orientation will be a right, hopefully anyway; I&#039;d like to live in a country where rights are applied to everyone without discrimination.  Just think:  at one time &quot;they&quot; thought that women &amp; black people shouldn&#039;t vote and many people lost their lives fighting to get that changed because &quot;they&quot; believed passionately that these people weren&#039;t deserving;and only they were deserving.  Because the majority of people in a country &quot;believes&quot; that some segments of society are lesser than they are (or rather that they fantacize they are better than) &amp; therefore not eligible for full human and civil rights doesn&#039;t make it right, as has been proven time again by our own history.  But . . .that&#039;s another topic for another forum, I guess; as Richard said we kinda got off topic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think someday sexual orientation will be a right, hopefully anyway; I&#8217;d like to live in a country where rights are applied to everyone without discrimination.  Just think:  at one time &#8220;they&#8221; thought that women &amp; black people shouldn&#8217;t vote and many people lost their lives fighting to get that changed because &#8220;they&#8221; believed passionately that these people weren&#8217;t deserving;and only they were deserving.  Because the majority of people in a country &#8220;believes&#8221; that some segments of society are lesser than they are (or rather that they fantacize they are better than) &amp; therefore not eligible for full human and civil rights doesn&#8217;t make it right, as has been proven time again by our own history.  But . . .that&#8217;s another topic for another forum, I guess; as Richard said we kinda got off topic.</p>
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